(H.O.) posted an article about LGB Alliance Ireland (co-written by Lauren Black) on a lesbian social group FB page in N. Z. on 22/8/2021 which led to 29 comments of discussion before I was blocked.

Their rules say that TERF not allowed and that TWAW. So, there was no way of meeting local lesbians on-line for me. here is how it happened: H. O. Thank goodness we lesbians here haven't been excluded like in Ireland S. M. Why are you posting this transphobic crap here? H. O. to S. M. It specifies why it is not transphobic. It is pro Lesbian and Gay and Bi and this is a site for Lesbians in M_______. So I posted it here so that Lesbians of M_______ could get to read it and see how lucky we are to not be attacked and shut down.

S. M. to H. O. it is absolutely transphobic and unwanted in this group. H. O. to S. M. Absolutely you say ... as if all of it is totally transphobic? Even the bit that says "Gender dysphoria is a strong discomfort with your biological sex. It is often associated with the wish to live as the opposite sex. It is most often treated with transition; the “affirmation model” recommends that if somebody questions their sex, they should be supported to transition medically, as their first, best option. They are “affirmed” in their gender by medical professionals. LGB Alliance Ireland supports the right of adults who live with gender dysphoria to access medical transition” J. B. to H. O. Yeah, that's standard transphobic propaganda. If someone has to explain how they are not being a bigot, they are usually being a bigot.

H. O. to J. B. can you explain that more? I don't get this usual bigot idea. J. B. to H. O. When some says, "I'm not racist, but..." or "I'm not transphobic, but..." or "I'm not homophobic, but..." that always means they are about to say something racist / transphobic / homophobic. If someone is not being a bigot, they don't have to explain it. H. O. to J. B. Where is the 'but' that you are referring to? The only 'but' I can see is in the word 'butch'. J. B. to H. O. As I said, if someone has to explain that they are not being a bigot, then they are most definitely being a bigot. H. O. to J. B. can you explain the details of that? ⁠L. M. But it IS transphobic. H. O. to L. M. Which bit? The bit that acknowledges that "There is a conflict between LGB rights and trans rights; gender identity ideologists believe that biological sex does not even exist as a binary, and that sexual orientation based on biology rather than gender identity is transphobic. If we are ever going to resolve these issues, in a civil society, this must be done in open debate, and in a civilised fashion. This is alarmingly difficult in the current climate

S.M. to H. O. the crap about not affirming gender identity just for a start. J. B. to H. O. The only issue that needs to be resolved is for people to understand that there is no conflict. Transfolk are not causing any of our problems. Much like cis queers, they have always been here and we have no right to marginalize them as we … H. O. to J. B. Are you saying this cos you feel that they are being marginalised in the LGBTQI+ organisations? I agree with ideas from Gender Dysphoric Alliance: " There are other ways to manage distress without hate or harm. ⁠ o A public discussion about how to balance the rights and safety of all people is not “hate propaganda”. o Disagreement on philosophical matters is not bigotry. Debate and disagreement are to be expected. o People with GD wish to live in harmony alongside LGB and female friends, families and communities. People with GD come from all kinds of backgrounds. No one with GD has to abandon their culture and adopt another one. GDAC reject the accusation that they are advocating for hate or for harm to anyone and will continue to stand for the principles they believe in, because it is their right to do so”. J. B. to H. O. Transwomen are not a threat to anyone's safety. Quite the opposite. We need to protect our sisters, not leave them out in the cold. H. O. to J. B. There is no mention of Transwomen in the article above nor is there any mention of a 'threat to anyone's safety'. I agree that we don't want to leave our sisters out in the cold. ⁠ H. O. Is this the bit that you consider the crap "LGB Alliance Ireland supports the right of adults who live with gender dysphoria to access medical transition; however, we feel that alongside the possibility of transition, individuals should be offered other options to deal with their dysphoria. We feel that the affirmation model is damaging, as it closes out those other options”. J. B. to H. O. Yes. This is like men telling women what we can and can't do to our bodies. H. O. to J. B. Is that the bit where it says "alongside the possibility of transition, individuals should be offered other options to deal with their dysphoria. " Do you see more options as telling you want you can and can't do.? J. B. to H. O. Like when women are required to go through counseling before they can have an abortion? Transpeople know their options. I promise you, no one transitions on a whim.

H. O. I agree with you about the 'whim'. And I agree with counselling b4 abortions. ⁠S. M. to H. O. because I absolutely support Trans people to make the decisions they need to make that are right for them. H. O. to S. M. as does the article above. J. B. to H.O. No, it does not. There is exactly no reason to remove the 'T+' from LGB except hate or, at least, willful ignorance. H. O. to J. B. There are large LGBTQI+ and Rainbow groups within NZ. Trans has not been 'removed'.

S. M. to H. O. No it does not. It questions separates and is divisive and suggests what amounts to a close cousin of conversion therapy in Oder to what? Protect another group? Go away with your TERF bullcrap J. B. to H.O. Stop dodging. The article is about a group in Ireland… literally all about how they formed an ‘LGB’ only group. FFS, keep up. You’re the one who posted it. H. O. to J. B. But we have for years, in M_______, had the longest running inclusive group/nightclub in the country, a lo … THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, I WAS UNABLE TO POST COMMENT #NewZealand #LGBWithoutTheT